Trolling is Now Considered Political Discourse

Trolling is Now Considered Political Discourse


One of the things that we’ve been talking
about is how the political discourse has coarsened under Donald Trump, but the roots of this
actually predate Trump by quite a bit. Yeah. Trump is the anti intellectual president. He’s coalesced one of the least, uh, least
educated and most uninformed elements of the electorate. For his benefit, but that was already starting
to happen under George W. Bush decrying education as liberal indoctrination has gone back for
a while. Republicans have known for a long time that
when people learn critical thinking and epistemology, they are way less likely to vote Republican. So they’ve rooted out those subjects from
public school curricula in many States where they’ve taken control of the boards of education. But there is an element of this that goes
beyond simply anti intellectual realism, which is that trolling has become considered legitimate
political discourse. Yes, xenophobic talking points are considered
political discourse under Trump. Yes. The stuff that people like Ben Shapiro and
Charley cork do it. College is considered political discourse
now, but straight up trolling is also considered political discourse now. So trolling, just so we can define it, trolling
is deliberately posting or saying the most inflammatory, extraneous or off topic thing
that you can in a discussion. So rather than participating in the discussion
in good faith, you’re effectively derailing the conversation, sowing discord, trying to
cause disagreements or arguments or even just getting people to give up, participating in
the conversation altogether. And there’s a really good piece in wired by
Jonathan Albright who says, trolling is now considered mainstream political discourse. The Overton window of acceptable behavior
in political conversations and discourse has been widened to include as if it were legitimate
over trolling. There’s a really good study of social media
messages which finds that over time, more and more the message is posted about political
issues and about candidates are messages that are sort of a mix of hate speech, harassment,
amplifying unproven rumors and conspiracies, spreading fake news, swarming and dog piling
people and just direct attacks, character assassinations and insults. The number of comments about politics that
are meant to inspire action like voting or activism, contacting elected officials, those
are diminishing more and more. Now, this is true on the left and right. We don’t have to argue in what proportion
the right is much more a purveyor of fake news, much more a purveyor of conspiracy theories. There’s no question about that. The trolling is mixed, but we don’t have to
debate who does it more because it hurts the left more. That’s the reality. The right winds, when fewer people vote, the
right winds, when fewer people are engaged, if more and more of the discussion is the
type that makes people like voting is pointless, like their voices are relevant, that they
become frustrated and they bail out the right winds. When the algorithms and the filter bubbles
keep people in their own circles except for vicious attacks and hate speech and insults
so that people do nothing instead of be active. So they watch Netflix instead of be politically
active. The oligarchs and the billionaire class get
their way because others are bailing out. That’s why I say we’re at a disadvantage. We want to do things and they want to keep
things the same. We want to do things. They want no one to get involved so that they
can basically maintain the status quo while perpetuating the inequality cycles that we’ve
been seeing by creating gridlock and despair and apathy. They win. So we have to overcome that and we have to
do stuff. And this is one of the ways, one of the ways
in which the Trump era will have destructive effects well beyond his presidency, however
long it ends up lasting earlier we dealt with some of the other ways, uh, that Donald Trump
is going to have a destructive effect on the United States, well beyond his presidency. This is one of those ways and it is that trolling
and all sorts of other horrible stuff are actually considered political discourse and
a way to discuss political issues and figure out who we want to vote for that is extraordinarily
destructive and one of the great insulators against this there, there, there are many,
but one of the great insulators against this is a more educated population of population
who understands critical thinking and epistemology. As we talked about yesterday and that segment
interviewing a group of uneducated white swing state female voters. Go back and check that one out if you missed
it.

95 thoughts on “Trolling is Now Considered Political Discourse

  1. Im glad i live in the Kingdom of Denmark right left it is all the same in our Parliament, they all work together to get the best result for the people…

  2. The GoP is the reason epistemology and critical thinking aren't taught early?

    Serious question. I'd love some sources on this, because I've been wondering for a while now why those subjects aren't present in "general" k-12, afaik

  3. Not to me it isn’t. I’m so tired of it all that I want to divide us into two countries simply to not have to do it anymore.

  4. The MAGA Troll Zombie Army is REAL. Example: check out any CNN comment section, you'll be amazed how insidious, strategic, and tactical that bunch is… funny as hell too

  5. GOP (Gold Over People) Love's dead hero's and brain dead voters.
    ( Plutocracy, You are owned and controlled by the Rich)

    The Nixon and Reagan truly cemented the crony capitalists War State PLUTOCRACY of the Republicans.
    Their cowardice has been well noted since the Nixon and Reagan era.

  6. Proper trolling is at the expense of the audience!
    Trump at times, after many lines of sudafed, he actually does it well!😂
    I'd be trippin balls if I had to run America

  7. I think the right understands their base….they want it laid out for them as easy as possible so they don't have to think…..If they did…..they wouldn't be Trump's base….

  8. I’ve faced a serious issue where my handler has forced me to troll. Were the decision completely voluntary for me, I would prefer not to troll.

  9. Trolling is used to exhaust the other side.
    No offense, but many liberals and socdems/demsocs tend to fall for and believe the (far) right people online will understand facts or that they can send legitimate news sources to counter them.
    Best to ignore trolls or block/mute.

  10. Being from the south, I definitely agree that an educated populace is very important. There's no researching, just "my family voted [x] for years, I will too!".

  11. I know exactly what you mean. To this day my friends don’t acknowledge Hillary over trump because of Benghazi. I tell them she was in a hearing when they found no evidence or grounds to hold her accountable. But because there’s this news that keeps getting spread, trump ideally wins with people who now see this process of impeachment as a frivolous act by the left.. What? Obama, Bill and even bush are laughing right now looking this.

  12. Trolling and memes are fun when people know it is joking and there is no intent to bring down a person . But I ageee that they shouldn't be used as legitimate arguments. By the way, Epstein didn't kill himself. ☕

  13. You nailed it! This is how the One percent will keep us in our places and keep us in a state of bewilderment to the point we don't know how to act and to keep us separated politically and ideologically by magnifying our fears and base instincts. By the way, in my mind the One percent isn't just an American thing, it's world wide and they all know each other!

  14. trolling is fun in this context. Hate to say it david but you need to "git gud"… a few sociology classes, some independent study time into memeanic behaviors (Read "Turning Point") you don't have to lie about anything. 90% of the time you can just copypaste studies but interpret them within whatever your target ideology is and watch the sparks fly. Never lie, only interpret the facts in their objective sense and now you can piss off half the internet.

  15. Trolling inherently seeks to end discourse by "winning" by "destroying" debate and discussion (see zero-sum gaming theory, etc.). This is mainly prevalent on/in the mobacracy of social media. The whole "voting is pointless" and "why bother" apathy is just voter suppression, one of several goals of the right. Few have had the time and energy to resist this ever-present onslaught over the last several decades. Online mobs are not restrained by anything that even resembles classically understood norms. The mob is "winning" while destroying social constructs. For now, you're still free to decide whether this is a good or bad thing. Won't be terribly long before this decision will be yet another fond memory. ie. "Remember when trolls were funny? Man, those were the days!"

  16. The moral of David’s story is what others here are correctly pointing out: critical thinkers who can evaluate politically-charged events based on rational thinking, logic, context, and a value system based on personal responsibility are direct threats to Republican Party control of government. Indeed, their appeal is to those who lack the ability to generally think for themselves at all, i.e. “sheep”.

  17. When you wrestle with a pig you both get covered in shit, but the pig enjoys it.

    Post your opinion, respond to sensible replies, totally ignore the trolls, or just post your comment and don't go back.
    There's nothing they hate more than being ignored, leading them to show themselves up entirely.

    Rise above it, you don't need manufactured conflict in your life.

  18. It's very simple David… Trump won 2016 because he is the in internet president… Like you said not the first/ it didn't start with him… It started to a lesser degree with Obama believe it or not… But Trump definitely won 2016 because of his fans owning the Libtards and memes… The left is losing so hard because you all suck at both an this is perfectly exemplified in the classic "The left can't meme"

  19. The worst part is the under educated don't think they are under qualified. They also feel uncomfortable about politics and then vote same party as always

  20. the comment section is the place for rational discourse no way should people going to these open spaces to misbehave or try in any way deceive others for the sake of a few chuckles

  21. I deal with ppl (35 n less) who are not engaged in current events but do have some concerns about Trump, but I dont see this sense of patriotism to fight for a dying democracy. Idk, i guess they feel it will all work out bc EVERYBODY ELSE will fix it. Maybe that’s what they are accustomed to, ppl fixing their problems when it gets tough.

  22. You know one of the best indicators I see for 2020 results is the amount of 18 year olds there are who are progressive and liberal. The numbers are amazing. Their voting block could turn the tide blue in 2020.

  23. I think trolling has the opposite effect. It makes people want to troll back and becomes entertainment making people more engaged in politics and more likely to vote.

  24. The only thing that has changed is your pathetic Liberal bubble has been popped. What do you think the At Right and the Corporatocracy have been doing for the last 30 years? Liberals are pathetic pussies who have absolutely no capability of fighting fascism.

  25. DEMOCRATS own the POORLY EDUCATED BLACKS!! 90% . Most have very low education. They keep voting for DEMOCRAT hand outs. What's your point Packman??🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

  26. Chomsky the og troll or how much honesty is enough to keep people engaged in a feckless system? i love the idea of recovering from #45, so we can get back to destroying the planet with consumerism ala pelosi and mcconnel, you know civil abuse. trolling is as human as the internet gets but when exactly was politics legitimate or honest?

  27. They're even proud of it. Ever hear the phrase, 'the left can't meme'? It's come down to: if you can make people laugh, you won the argument.

  28. Trolling forces people to think. Nothing is more offensive to Americans, except jokes about basic Ameican values like obesity.

  29. I have always been against free college in American, but after seeing how many low-information Americans who are easily bamboozled by fake social media posts, I have come full circle on the issue. In fact, I am leaning toward mandating college to increase information levels.

  30. No David, the left ridiculing trolls does not always make people want to disengage politically. Sam Seder has debunked as many libertarian ideas (and Dave Rubin) with ridicule as he has with rational debate….the audience knows when trolling them back is the best option and it activates them.

  31. Instead of interesting or intelligent conversation in "live chat" instead you get religious stuff, pro trump stuff, comments about any female anchor, racist stuff, attacks against any one whose comments are not pro trump, and a whole lot of garbage. Live chats are distracting from the video they are under. Except for a few, it's all trolling to me.

  32. I'm banned off Facebook because a troll tricked me into an argument and they reported my comments. The strange thing is that if you report their comments Facebook will tell you that they don't see anything wrong with their comments. I'm never going back on Facebook.

  33. Donald Dump: O Ver Tun Window…he's a great guy! He'll do a great job for our country!

    PR goon guy: pssst..Mr President…he doesn't exist…

  34. I remember trolls were bad.
    Then Trump gets elected and conservatives suddenly all aspire to be trolls and celebrate trolling.
    Tired of it, you can't talk to people on Twitter at all.
    Try. Go ahead. I'll wait…..
    Some Trumper spammed you with memes didn't they?

  35. I think the word 'trolling' lacks imagination. You've got to feel it in order to describe it. I suggest sort of really feeling it in your gut – that tight part that holds tension just below the sternum. Have you ever had a glass of milk and kind of gargled and sucked air in while simultaneously burping? – it's like the sound of a baby T-Rex drowning in a tar pit. This is what I am talking about. You have to be on the verge on throwing up. A feeling like you are being implayed by Vlad himself. Though be warned – you may not return.

  36. The biggest con the right has done is to make it appear that news teams are either left or right. Just like this show, I think the division should be those who want to report on the truth and those who want to spin lies. As the right under Trump's guidance have continually spun lies, when reputable news teams and news shows report these lies, they are automatically accused of being left wing with some political agenda. Also the fact that reputable news shows continually report on the lies the right put out, this negative reporting by the reputable shows is used by the lying right as proof that these news shows are 'fake' news. I do believe that are frightening large percent of the population put blind faith in the republican party and POTUS in much the same way these same citizens put blind faith in their christian beliefs. Education especially with respect to critical thinking is the key to correcting this issue but as the republicans push to maintain the status quo, this will likely never happen.

  37. Fantastic statement, David. I actually wrote an uncannily similar breakdown of how the public education system's failure is an orchestrated effort, and that we have no fewer than 3 successive generations of Americans now who consider intellectual development to be a tool of evil. It's amazing to hear so many of the same ideas coming from someone who has much wider reach than I do! Have you been reading some Neil Postman lately?

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